User talk:Dalton Murray

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Welcome to H+Pedia!

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Hello, Dalton Murray, and welcome to H+Pedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few links to pages you might find helpful:

You can visit the community portal to ask questions or seek help.

Please remember to sign your messages on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out the community portal, ask me on my talk page, or ask for help on your talk page, and a volunteer should respond shortly. Again, welcome!

What are these 'XYZ' categories you're adding about? Deku-shrub (talk) 08:59, 5 October 2018 (CDT)

Hi Chris! ‘XYZ’ means I don’t know what to do about categories, yet.
I made them all go away. Peace.  :)

Page reviews

Hey there

Thanks for all the pages you've created! Normally I review pages at a faster rate than right now, however things are really busy with me. However if a few months from now you see loads of edits and some questions don't be surprised! Deku-shrub (talk) 16:56, 13 October 2018 (CDT)

Hi Chris! Good morning 😊 and you're welcome! And thank you for making all this possible. I'm having loads of fun; I'm grateful to be able and available to help. My goal was to create 100 new pages in 6 weeks. I’m on #57. I understand you're very busy, when you do your review the Categories and then the fact that I didn't really use References properly or much at all would be my concern. I do plan on going back and doing a second-round review myself once I reach the goal of 100. Some guidelines I am following: “be bold, make the change and typically don't wait for permission” “The value of partial answers” “hey, just jump in. Consider writing some of the most wanted pages”
Peace & Pasta
Dalton

The only thing I can recommend that you're not doing, if you have areas for future expansion, put comments about them on the talk page rather than empty sections in the main article. It's better articles be small but 'finished' with notes rather than large with such gaps Deku-shrub (talk) 05:02, 14 October 2018 (CDT)
Hi Chris! Best practice = small 'finished' articles, with comments on Talk page.
I agree, no more empty sections like I was doing, that was my interpretation of “The value of partial answers”, plus now I understand how to use the Talk pages I think.
Peace. Dalton Murray (talk) 11:29, 14 October 2018 (CDT)
Cheers. A user to user discussion should take place on a single user talk page. In this case, I raised the topic of your editing style on your page, so that's where it should be raised. If you had a matter of site policy or my editing style, you could raise that on my page. Deku-shrub (talk) 12:19, 14 October 2018 (CDT)
Thanks for the feedback. I understand now and I appreciate you explaining it like that. Cheers. Dalton Murray (talk) 02:43, 15 October 2018 (CDT)

Copied content

Hello, I see that you have been adding much to the wiki. However, I noticed that some of the content was copied from other websites.

If you copy wording from other sources, would you please make it clear that it is a quote and add clear attribution? In particular, I suggest naming the source in the body of the article and wrapping the copied content in either quotation marks or block-quote tags like this:

<blockquote>...</blockquote>

Otherwise, copied text could be considered plagiarism. --Haptic Feedback (talk) 05:39, 9 December 2018 (CST)

Hello there Mr. Haptic Feedback:
Who are you? What is your real name? Email?
Yes, I'm very concerned about plagiarism. Thank you. I appreciate this information. I've done my best to review public domain and Creative Commons policies- the thing is I only have an hour or so each morning to create a new page and
my concern is that this sort of information needs to be available in one location and easily accessible. Any thoughts on that?
Please tell me the exact example you use when saying “I notice that some of the content was copied from other websites” so that I can fix those. Peace.--Dalton Murray (talk) 04:59, 10 December 2018 (CST)
In many cases you've copied descriptive prose directly from the source website. Such language is inherently self-promotional, and often out of date, not transhumanist-focused and in need of wikification. It's acceptable to use text like this when contextualised e.g. in a blockquote or similar, but articles should not be dominated by such text Deku-shrub (talk) 06:36, 10 December 2018 (CST)
  • I'm just a contributor who likes to stay behind a pseudonym. I don't feel comfortable putting my name or email address on a public forum, but you can find me on the Transhumanism Discord channel if you want to correspond privately.
Here are some examples of pages with content that you seemingly copied: Frank Tipler, Self-aware, Humanism
--Haptic Feedback (talk) 17:34, 10 December 2018 (CST)
Hello Chris and Mr. Haptic Feedback: sorry about all that stuff with this descriptive prose, I simply did not know, and I’m hoping most of it is with the books, there were 56 of those. This type of instruction is invaluable, thank you. (and I mostly understand it and I will add it to my notes) I like blockquotes a lot. Rest assured I will go back to every book and check them all. When I started the project I thought I would be going back to each page and checking them often for quite a while and fixing stuff, I'm totally cool with that. Mr. H., thank you for giving specific examples that really helps me. Also, everything I added was copied from other websites.--Dalton Murray (talk) 05:26, 11 December 2018 (CST)
Hi there. I reviewed the new pages I created over the past 3 months and identified 83 out of 127 that contain copied descriptive prose and need blockquotes. - I will begin working on correcting all that right now. Peace. Cheers!--Dalton Murray (talk) 02:16, 13 December 2018 (CST)
Hello Mr. Murray,
Thank you for being so understanding and cooperative. I hope that this does not take too much of your time. If it would save time for you, feel free to post some of the pages that need editing, and I would be happy to help.
--Haptic Feedback (talk) 03:31, 13 December 2018 (CST)
Good morning Mr. H. -
I absolutely would enjoy collaborating on pages with you next year. I believe in the idea of Collabtech and I’d like to create a small group project where we choose 30 wanted pages from the red links and then three of us actively contribute equally yet in different ways on the same day, and then the page is marked complete by three people working together. Course I really don’t know because this is the first time I have ever helped with a Wiki. Everything is brand new to me. My goal is to learn and I'm learning a lot. Thank you for the offer to help; I will certainly take you up on your offer another time. Peace.--Dalton Murray (talk) 06:07, 13 December 2018 (CST)
Mr. Deku-shrub and Mr. Haptic Feedback-
About those Books pages & your instruction: articles should not be dominated (51%) by copied descriptive prose .
There are two ways to manage this:
1.) delete the descriptive prose from 56 new Pages because it violates your editing rule
2.) add a disclaimer, an Editor’s Note, along with the Blockquotes and named source in body.
IT IS THE POLICY OF H+PEDIA TO AVOID COPING DESCRIPTIVE PROSE FROM OTHER WEBSITES IN A WAY WHERE THAT WOULD DOMINATE THE PAGE. THIS IS RATHER DIFFICULT WHEN ADDING BOOKS, SO WHAT WE DID WAS JUST COPIED A SUMMARY FROM MOSTLY EITHER AMAZON OR GOODREADS. IF YOU HAVE READ THIS BOOK AND YOU HAVE A TRANSHUMANIST POV AND WOULD LIKE TO ADD TO THE PAGE, PLEASE LET US KNOW, WE WOULD LOVE TO TALK WITH YOU.
Or something shorter maybe. Peace. Cheers!
Also, please take a look at this Page: The Hastings Center https://hpluspedia.org/wiki/The_Hastings_Center
This is 100% copied descriptive prose, noted in the References. What would you have me do?--Dalton Murray (talk) 03:43, 16 December 2018 (CST)
I was not aware of the 51% principle, but it seems good. I suggest summarising important information in your own words and deleting anything extra that would break this principle. --Haptic Feedback (talk) 07:33, 16 December 2018 (CST)
I too agree that the 51% principle seems good. FYI: I'm interpreting the word “dominated” as 51%, or more than half, and I'm referencing instruction from Deku-shrub on December 10 at 06:36(CST). So, you see, you're in good company then because I wasn't aware of it either until just 6 days ago. Defining rules helps everyone and this sort of thing will be added to the Manual of style soon.
I really dig (60’s American hippy slang) your idea to just go ahead and summarize the summary of what I had already copied. This sounds way fun to me. It is a better solution than my Editor’s Note idea, which was really me thinking of another way to draw people in. Since there are currently 1164 pages and just 102 books, that's like 9%. Everyone loves books and they add to the overall project. Still, recommendations and review of books are like an appetizer before the main meal. I will not be adding anymore books anytime soon, though I am all in on writing Summaries. And please, if you see me making stupid novice mistakes, feel free to just tell me, and I will do it differently. Thank you for letting me be of service. Also, I really like the way you do your references and I’ll be modeling that style in the future. Peace.--Dalton Murray (talk) 12:51, 16 December 2018 (CST)
I thought about this some more and decided not to write book summaries because I just don't have time. My goal is to work the Special Wanted Pages Red Links, there are about 1,965 of those, by creating “starter pages” that turn everything Blue. I need to stay focused on that goal. So, what I'm doing is deleting unnecessary copied content while adding blockquotes along with naming the source in the body. This will remove any thoughts of plagiarism.--Dalton Murray (talk) 03:50, 20 December 2018 (CST)

Reference lists

Hello Mr. Murray, would you still like some information about {{reflist}}? --Haptic Feedback (talk) 16:37, 3 January 2019 (CST)

Hello Mr. H., If you have one or two lines of general advice, please. Anything at all. Earlier, I looked a bit closer at the Edit page I was confused about and broke it down into smaller chunks, so I get it, I think. I thought there was some trick and I guess I’m not sure where the {{reflist}} appears from? and that’s Ok for now. I am happy to take the time and read the relevant parts of the MediaWiki user manual. Also, I'm used to having someone in the next office I can call to whenever I have a question. Peace.--Dalton Murray (talk) 20:36, 3 January 2019 (CST)
My understanding is simply that, when you add {{reflist}} to a page, all <ref> citations on the page will show up there. In other words, you have to add {{reflist}} manually, and it just controls where the citation content appears. Does that help? --Haptic Feedback (talk) 03:38, 5 January 2019 (CST)
Yes, that helps, absolutely. And more than that, what helps me is your willingness to offer help. I appreciate your care & concern and thoroughness when looking at the talk pages or recent changes or whatever because I asked you a question and then, you know, I deleted it when I thought, oh well that's a dumb question I should be able to figure this out, and so it is just a different type of collaboration is all, this wiki project, as everyone is so dispersed and there is no step by step user manual contained within the project itself. Which is totally fine, it's very different, and I love different. So, I'm learning and having fun and all, yet I get worried about doing something wrong or making obvious mistakes. When I read the word "plagiarism" - it freaked me out - because at the very beginning I said I felt like I was plagiarizing content and I even mentioned that I thought it was a major psychological barrier for people first beginning to add pages. Then I briefly read up on Public Domain and Creative Commons and the mix and match philosophy of the younger generation (I’m 57) and I kind of think copyrights are a little ridiculous while at the same time now I totally agree with Deku-shrub “source or die”. As always, more will be revealed. Very quickly I will become a master at referencing properly. :) Peace and love to you Mr. Haptic Feedback. --Dalton Murray (talk) 05:45, 5 January 2019 (CST)
I like to help. Sorry to freak you out earlier, and thank you for the kind words! Try not to get overwhelmed with learning this stuff – I just apply my habits from editing Wikipedia, which I got through copying the style of others and learning as I went along. --Haptic Feedback (talk) 07:24, 5 January 2019 (CST)